BONO INTERVIEW, BFM Auckland NZ, 04.I2.93

Marcus Lush: ... Stop dreaming, I was having a massive fight with Bono from U2, was one of those y'know, it was a great clash and then my mother comes in and said, "Oh, Graham's just rung, Bono might be coming up to the station for an interview", and so maybe in some ways you are God, Bono, 'cos it happened!

Bono: I can make it all happen, y'know.

Marcus: You can make it happen!

Bono: Omnipresent, yeah.

Marcus: Yeah. Thanks for coming in.

Bono: Yeah, but you'd want to work up them muscles!

Marcus: No I'm a waif, I'm the Kate Moss school of body building. (Bono laughs) Do you work out?

Bono: No, I don't. I work off!

Marcus: Do you get paranoid about your health? When you've got 60 000 people going, do you think, "Shit, y'know I can't have a really great time the night before 'cos I might be really hung over"... 'cos you would get, wouldn't you?

Bono: Well you do, and I have done, so I try not to do it, y'know, all the time.

Marcus: So you're not a hypochondriac?

Bono: No. Larry Mullen's a hypochondriac.

Marcus: I believe a lot of them are - Englebert Humperdinck?

Bono: Well now, he's a big influence.

Marcus: Is he?

Bono: On me, yes.

Marcus: I heard he was difficult to work with, with the drugs and the prescriptions and those sorts of things that you've got to take around.

Bono: That's right, beware of sideburns I say.

Marcus: Yeah well I haven't actually got the facial hair to grow them!

Bono: Have you any body hair? (laughs)

Marcus: Yeah I've got body hair, I've got pubic hair; I'm not going to show it to you, no way! Hey I went to the Press Conference a couple of years ago and it was all very serious.

Bono: Where was this?

Marcus: At the airport. You guys had come off the plane, you looked shagged, the four of you.

Bono: Yeah the seriousness was a great stand-in for fright and ah... Y'know.

Marcus: 'Cos now you're drinking hellbenders aren't you! Is that right after the gig, it's all back and it's the parties all night.

Bono: Well you know Rock & Roll has its vicissitudes as they say, but we are sort of part-time Pop Stars, it's sort of, we play with it, it's packaging really. The young people like rebel figures and so it's important to pretend to be them. You've probably dealt with this before have you?

Marcus: So you've reinvented the rebel within have you?

Bono: Well this is it, we're following... This is what the young people want, self destruction, you have to die on a cross at 33, so we're here to oblige.

Marcus: Do you have to say, "Kids, this is not clever, the amount of drink we're drinking, we're doing it because we are grown up" and you do have that responsibility, I mean there's that concern that comes with the message isn't there?

Bono: I'm not sure I understand that?

Marcus: You drink a lot, and kids might drink a lot to be like Bono.

Bono: Who drinks a lot? I don't drink a lot!

Marcus: Don't you?

Bono: No I don't, no I wear it on my sleeve, it's a badge.

Marcus: I understand you know, from interviews I've read that especially in Italy afterwards, it was Guinness till dawn and igloos and all sorts of carry on, pool, Guinness, igloos, Rock & Roll with Axl Rose. (Bono laughs) Is that true?

Bono: Axl Rose only drinks tea.

Marcus: Is that right.

Bono: Yeah.

Marcus: Can he beat you in chess, Axl Rose?

Bono: I've not played Axl in chess, no.

Marcus: Have you played the one that begins with K and ends with V yet? I always get Kasparov and Karpov mixed up.

Bono: Kasparov. Yeah yeah, y'know I played him just a couple of weeks ago, it was a close thing. (laughs)

Marcus: Was it pretty tense? Did you think this is the big one? No did you really play him?

Bono: It was a close thing. No I haven't played him yet, no.

Marcus: But you have a voucher that entitles you to play him.

Bono: That's it, it was given to me as a birthday present, you're quite right.

Marcus: And you're just building up your energy or something.

Bono: For a man who spends a lot of time in the pub, you've done your research very well.

Marcus: No I just like to know the information and what's going on. I tell you I did do a bit of research, I dunno if you mind me saying it, but I spoke to Mike Moore yesterday morning.

Bono: Yes.

Marcus: Did you speak to him the might before?

Bono: No. And um, that's something that I actually, that's the real reason I came in here. Who does the research for that; was it you?

Marcus: Yeah.

Bono: Right, I never called Mike Moore, I never said we'd call him.

Marcus: Oh, I owe you an apology!

Bono: We called John Banks!

Marcus: I heard you called John Banks and Mike Moore.

Bono: No. I said to myself, this is typical. Come in, a College station, at least they'll get the news right. Could they get the news, could you even make a telephone call to Christchurch.

Marcus: We heard it from Christchurch, you talked to Mike Moore and John Banks.

Bono: Yeah, but somebody wasn't at the gig.

Marcus: Yeah, that's right. How many were at the gig?

Bono: Rascals. Um, there was about 20 000.

Marcus: Is there any chance you could give our cricket team a bit of a ring tonight? 'cos they are just appalling.

Bono: Who do you reckon we should call?

Marcus: I reckon the captain of the cricket team, Kenny Rutherford, Butterfingers. Do you play cricket in Ireland?

Bono: No, no; it's a little too Zen a sport for me I think.

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Marcus: Do you feel that Frank Sinatra's duet album is something of a... scam? that they weren't recording together - you did a duet with him, right?

Bono: No, no I don't feel - y'know that's like, that's like saying if you don't all play in a room together, you know, that it's not real or something. I mean it is the '90s, that's a kind of prehistoric point of view, I wouldn't, y'know, this is a new age, isn't it?

Marcus: So you feel quite comfortable about it.

Bono: Yeah, I actually prefer it, I wouldn't want to be standing in a room with Frank Sinatra, I'd just duck wouldn't I?

Marcus: You met him?

Bono: Yeah sure, yeah, went back to his place in Palm Springs, he lives in the desert, and I went out there and, y'know, I brought him a bottle of Irish Whiskey and we drank it, it was great.

Marcus: If you were choosing father-in-laws would it be Frank Sinatra or Johnny Cash?

Bono: Ooh... well I'll tell you what: I'll have Johnny Cash as the father-in-law and Frank Sinatra as the Godfather. (laughs)

Marcus: Yeah. Yeah, I set you up for that one didn't I?

Bono: Bless you.

Marcus: Johnny Cash, is he incredible?

Bono: Um, Johnny Cash is, yeah.

Marcus: I worship him, he came across here with the Highwaymen last year.

Bono: Did you talk to him?

Marcus: We went to the Press conference and we asked him - Graham, my mate, the programme director asked him about A Boy Named Sue, and he claimed it was the original rap song, which I thought was kinda, he's pretty outward and open to other sorts of music.

Bono: Yeah he is, he's recording with Rick Rubin at the moment, did you know that?

Marcus: Yeah, whole album's coming out.

Bono: Yeah, he's really cool. I mean his voice is kinda more aggressive than most people's, y'know, Marshall amp stacks as far as I'm concerned.

Marcus: Is he more of a Christian than you, Johnny Cash?

Bono: This is not the sort of assessment I would make of a man I respect, you know? Is he more Christian than I? I'd say he is, but I, y'know, it isn't something that would be on my mind as I'm talking to him.

Marcus: So you didn't talk about God?

Bono: I'd say he's a better advert than I am.

Marcus: Axl Rose is a mate of yours right?

Bono: I know him.

Marcus: He tours a lot; is he here, Axl?

Bono: This is all deep. In '53? Good man!

Marcus: The same time the Queen of England got coronated, it was the same day Ed Hillary climbed to the top of Mt Everest.

Bono: Wow, and he was 53 when he did it?

Marcus: No, about 23.

Bono: Oh, right.

Marcus: He was a beekeeper.

Bono: Wow!

Marcus: Did you have an occupation before you were a musician?

Bono: No I didn't have - I've had the life of a musician since I was sixteen. Actually I did pull petrol, y'know, a fuel injection technician... Briefly.

Marcus: Are there times when you remember that fondly?

Bono: No! (laughs)

Marcus: What's-his-name the singer, who's the singer, who's that band who's huge, Pearl Jam; he was pumping gas when he got the phone call wasn't he?

Bono: Yeah; he humped gear at our gigs actually, old Eddie.

Marcus: Is that right!

Bono: Yeah.

Marcus: Nice guy?

Bono: Very nice guy, yeah. Like him a lot.

Marcus: You like the whole Seattle bit, or you think it's shot its load or you...?

Bono: I don't, I don't like the scene that's probably come out, no, but some bands transcend the form and I find the form very dull, boring, old-fashioned; strikes me a bit like folk music really.

Marcus: And Ireland being a big home of folk music in a lot of ways.

Bono: Mm, that's right.

Marcus: Country and Western too.

Bono: Yeah, that's right!

Marcus: I love Country & Western, are you big on that?

Bono: Not as big as Larry, Larry Mullen's kinda into Country & Western, yeah.

Marcus: Garth Brooks, that sort of carry on? or the more fair dinkum stuff?

Bono: Hm. I dunno if he's big into Garth.

Marcus: I don't know if this is an out of order question, lumping Irish people together as um -

Bono: Why not, the British have been doing it for years.

Marcus: Will we see Shane McGowan perform again?

Bono: I think you will yeah, he's living in Dublin now, he's writing some brilliant songs. 50 at the last count.

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Marcus: I'll tell you what irked me in some ways, Bono; we had Paul and Linda come across and tell us not to eat meat, and then took all the money out of the economy; (Bono laughs) you know I thought that's some form of cultural imperialism, isn't it? You've got no message have you? You've abandoned your - you're not here to change the world, which is great.

Bono: No, we are here to change the world!

Marcus: Oh shit, I got that wrong.

Bono: (laughs) We're definitely here to change the world, that's what we're trying to do; we're just not letting on.

Marcus: And you change it through your music and...

Bono: It's packaging. The soul of it is still as painfully serious as ever.

Marcus: Are you a cyber punk, with all this carry on? (Bono laughs) Do you get home and play video games and do all that carry on?

Bono: A cydona (?) punk, that's what you are. (laughs)

Marcus: What does that mean, I am a cydona punk? Do people respect your privacy, or do you still dig that if people come up and have nice things to say?

Bono: It depends on the people doesn't it? you know, I mean a compliment isn't a compliment if it comes from an arsehole.

Marcus: Do famous people attract fanatics, bipolars, that sort of thing? People that are -

Bono: Yeah. Yeah you do, in fact -

Marcus: It's a real concern eh?

Bono: Well yeah, because you might end up judging your audience by just the people you meet, and that could be pretty scary.

Marcus: Have you ever approached someone that you have always respected and thought yeah I really want to talk to them and walked up and said you know I really love your work?

Bono: Yeah, I did. Muhammad Ali, I asked Muhammad Ali for his autograph, because I've always looked up to boxers of his kind of ilk, and I suppose I, y'know.

Marcus: Did you box?

Bono: Um, not in a proper way.

Marcus: Have you seen Muhammad lately, is he alright?

Bono: No, you know he's very sharp, but he has an illness which sometimes means he slurs his words, so he appears not to be as sharp as he is. The opposite to you! (laughter) No!

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Marcus: What's the, you've got a new Prime Minister, she's a woman, in charge of Ireland, she's doing great things is she?

Bono: Yeah, she's amazing. Mary Robinson is her name.

Marcus: Yeah, we had her out here, she seemed incredible.

Bono: She is, she's seriously hip, yeah, they're all afraid of her, all the government because she doesn't come to them for, you know, for advice, she kinda does what she wants, and she's setting, you know, a lot of precedents for the presidency and changing the way people see women in Ireland and standing out, and we've got some real problems with the church and state in Ireland, and she's helping to sort of wedge, um ah, y'know, make a, make a difference there.

Marcus: What makes her so incredible, when you see, you know, the other woman leader as being Thatcher, and you know, in your Isles there, and this woman comes along, and gets it back together.

Bono: Yeah, she's a light, she really is.

Marcus: You met her?

Bono: Yeah.

Marcus: It was cool?

Bono: I have met her, yeah; I helped set up a meeting with her and Salman Rushdie, and ah, 'cos you know his own in Britain they ignore him, you know, and they kinda left him be, because he was a (unintelligible)

Marcus: That's disgusting what happened to him in some ways, I mean I see he's trying to meet Clinton, but...

Bono: Yeah, yeah, it's just, they're just, it's really astonishing because freedom of the press is just around the corner from where we live, and from where, from this radio station, and from, you know it's actually quite pertinent, y'know, it's not just a side issue for us, um, associating with Salman Rushdie.

Marcus: It's becoming more and more of an issue for us here with songs with profanities and the word 'fuck', y'know; it's not a big deal to any of our listenership but ah, it's gonna happen soon and we're gonna have to pass all our records through a censor, which is just...

Bono: Is that gonna happen here?

Marcus: Yeah.

Bono: I cannot understand that, I mean, this, y'know, I think that New Zealand should really fight for, it has its reputation y'know. I have in the past as I've been around I'll say "you should check out New Zealand, they're the most, y'know, they have a progressive point of view on radio there," and I've heard recently that things are getting quite conservative, and - I think that's really -

Marcus: Well we had a situation where the station down the line, y'know, someone who, I call them a religious fanatic, I don't know who they were but they... 'Detachable Penis' was taking the attention of the censors and was
deemed to be un -

Bono: (laughs) A detachable penis would be extremely (unintelligible) Sounds like a great invention!

Marcus: Have you heard of that King Missile song 'Detachable Penis'?

Bono: No, no, but I, ah, can you buy them yet?

Marcus: I can play it. It's an American song, but that was one that was quite light-hearted, a guy's got a detachable penis, y'know, it's whimsy, it's college whimsy, and they deemed it suspect.

Bono: Yeah, yeah.

Marcus: Which is just horrendous.

Bono: It's just dumb, ya shouldn't put up with it around here, y'know, really you shouldn't because it's, y'know, you're off in this part of the globe and you've got something going and I wouldn't, I just...

Marcus: Yeah but is, is music that powerful that it can cause people to go and do unspeakable acts? y'know is song, you believe in song obviously, you're getting 60,000 people turning up, um, you're doing things in Sarajevo and all sorts of carry on.

Bono: Mm hm.

Marcus: Is it powerful that it can be lyrically dangerous?

Bono: I don't think it's lyrically dangerous to people who aren't unstable, and people who are unstable can be set off by anything. We've had cases, um, y'know, of our own music being used in court trials, um, as a defence for murder, or things like that. I mean really horrible stuff.

Marcus: That's, you shouldn't have to go through that, I mean you're trying to...

Bono: But people are, um, these people are unstable and just, y'know, just, it's like somebody looking at you the wrong way as you pass them on the street, and it's just an excuse. That they can put this into legislation is what's frightening. I mean y'know, the other thing that you've got to be careful of in this area is that rock'n'roll's become very self conscious and people know all the buttons to press now, you know in order to gain controversy and therefore sell records, and the media can be real suckers, and y'know, can go out and buy a record simply because it's banned when it's just really dumb, and a lot of the, y'know, there is a lot of dumb stuff that's out there; but I think let it go out there, y'know give 'em enough rope, that's what I say.

Marcus: Has Madonna got a lot to answer for as far as that goes?

Bono: I don't think so, I, I think she's all right actually. I mean, I think, I mean; the thing about pornography is y'know, Freud is, y'know he's sort of last year's thing. But even if he was only half right, y'know even if he was quarter right or an eighth right and sex is close to the centre of peoples lives, then it is extraordinary that we relegate it to pornographers and people, y'know, people of very small imaginations and probably dicks, to use this subject matter. So I think anyone with a bit of brains and intelligence who's working in that area is, is, is a good thing, so I'm up for Madonna; I mean it's, you know.

Marcus: Is it possible to get less serious as life goes on, I mean last time we saw you in '89 you seemed to be serious; I'm 28 now I guess you're 32, 33, do you get more relaxed as life goes on, does it become better and easier?

Bono: I think, yeah, I'm having a lot of fun at the moment. I was having a lot of fun, um, back then; it's just that when you put a camera in front of me or a microphone in front of me I tended to sort of seize up and you know, adopt serious, y'know, young man stance ... (laughs) has it never happened to you obviously?!

Marcus: No, it's just, no no, we're, y'know -

Bono: It's never happened to you.

Marcus: I mean, I have real troubles with Sting trying to rescue the Amazonian Rainforest. I mean that's a cool thing to do, but musicians by the nature of what they do aren't equipped to save the world.

Bono: Yeah but think about that, think y'know, what's going on is, there's a - yeah, first of all, first role of anybody in a rock'n'roll band anywhere is not to be boring or dull, okay.

Marcus: Yeah.

Bono: That's, lets accept that as number one. But after that, you don't want to go back to that place where rock'n'roll is put back in its box, and it's just allowed, y'know to be what it is, and people in any bar, y'know on any stool in any bar are giving off, and some people have just larger loud-hailers than others and they wanna just use em, y'know, and y'know, we've got a spotlight on us and y'know I've gotta go home and go to sleep at night, and I like to think at least part of the circus of what I do is being able to occasionally fuckin' shoot my mouth off.

Marcus: Is there anything you can do with Bosnia and Herzegovina, you know, is that something that, that you're capable of making a difference?

Bono: I dunno, but if the people of Sarajevo think we're making a difference and they ask you to do something, I think, it's the least you can do to say yes. Y'know, most people can't do anything can they? But if I can, I should, right?

Marcus: I mean, you'd feel like a, an arrogant guilty prick if you didn't wouldn't you?

Bono: Right.

Marcus: So that's the last thing you want to feel like?

Bono: I don't, I don't...

Marcus: When you're having the time of your life.

Bono: I don't, I don't want to feel that, I'm having the time of my life, and that, y'know, helps me have even more of a time of my life. I think I can have my cake and eat it.

Marcus: Can you still do your classic Dublin pub thing? Can you still walk in there and drink and chat to them?

Bono: Yeah... yeah, Dublin pubs are great.

Marcus: They respect you as what you are.

Bono: Ah y'know; it depends on the pub you go to. And ah, it's like anything, y'know, it's, I mean certain streets you don't go down 'cos there's, y'know, 'cos the people down there maybe, y'know, pay you too much attention or whatever.

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Marcus: We better let you go and go do your bit, thanks very much for coming up.

Bono: Yeah.

Marcus: Really appreciate it.

Bono: Yep, good station, happy to talk to you.

Marcus: Next time?

Bono: Yep.

Marcus: '96?

Bono: All right.

Marcus: What can you, go from ZOO TV, I guess you gotta go...

Bono: Home.

Marcus: You gotta find another media. (laughter) Yeah but then when you come back again I mean you either gotta go right back to basics and do an unplugged set before 60 000...

Bono: No, we're mounting the ahh, the ahh, the sort of reaction against this kind of folk music.

Marcus: Do you hate unplugged?

Bono: No, I don't hate it. We do an unplugged part of our set in the middle of the crowd but, it's just not what's exciting at the moment, I'm exited about the future, and you know.

Marcus: It's all pretty retro and Neil Young and...

Bono: God, it's so horrible, it's so dull!

Marcus: Rod Stewart.

Bono: - white rock. Forget them, they sound positively modern in comparison to a lot of the college bands, I think, and ahh, I just, I can't get over it; like there's kids in Compton and y'know, the Bronx, Hispanics and black kids who haven't been to school, and they're operating technology that's, and creating new kind of smart music. Meanwhile this, you have this white, sort of hormonal, you know this male music that is so unimaginative to me, and um, so. I'm just into the future, I'm into...

Marcus: Is techno the future?

Bono: I don't know if that's the future - soul is the future, but it's just gonna have a new framework.

Marcus: But soul was the past as well, wasn't it?

Bono: Yeah, that's the, that's the thing we'll carry with us, and we'll dump the rest.

Marcus: I'll meet you in Cuba.

Bono: Amen.